Lesson 146: はともかく・はもとより・にかけては・次第で

N2 · Lesson 146 · 18 min — Never mind ～, not to mention ～, when it comes to ～, depends on ～: four ways to set a goal for the petition

Last lesson, Rin began collecting petition signatures on a street in Yanaka, and it started to rain. This lesson has four "noun + ～" patterns: はともかく (set it aside), はもとより (it goes without saying, and even the next thing too), にかけては (when it comes to this, nobody beats him) and 次第しだいで (it all depends on it). Let's read the comic first!

After this lesson, you can:

• Use はともかく to say "never mind ～ for now": 結果けっかは ともかく、やって みよう
• Use はもとより to say "not to mention ～, even ～ too", and tell it apart from はもちろん
• Use にかけては to praise a strong point: ラーメンに かけては 日本一にほんいちだ
• Use 次第しだいで／次第しだいだ to say "it all depends on ～", and tell it apart from に よって

Goal: 3,000 signatures

Last lesson the petition began, and then it rained. Tonight everyone is back at くまや, and Rin counts the sheets... (署名しょめい= petition signature, 結果けっか= result, 頼たのむ= to ask, 区く= ward (office), 答こたえ= reply, 目標もくひょう= goal, 量りょう= portion)

はともかく = set it aside, はもとより = and even the next thing, にかけては = praise a strength, 次第しだいで = depends on it. Next lesson: what do the meeting minutes say?

This lesson's words: signatures, ratings and goals

• 〜は ともかく (wa tomokaku): never mind ～ / setting ～ aside
• 〜は もとより (wa motoyori): not to mention ～ (even ～ too)
• 〜に かけては (ni kakete wa): when it comes to ～ (best at it, second to none)
• 〜次第しだいで／次第しだいだ (shidai de / shidai da): depends on ～ / up to ～
• 結果けっか (kekka): result
• 署名しょめい (shomei): petition signature, signing your name
• 数かず (kazu): number, count
• 目標もくひょう (mokuhyō): goal, target
• 日本一にほんいち (nihon'ichi): number one in Japan
• 味あじ (aji): taste, flavor
• 量りょう (ryō): portion, amount
• 見みた目め (mitame): looks, appearance
• 値段ねだん (nedan): price
• 住民じゅうみん (jūmin): resident
• 平日へいじつ (heijitsu): weekday (Monday to Friday)
• 負まける (makeru): to lose
• 自信じしん (jishin): confidence
• スープ作づくり (sūpu-zukuri): making broth (the act of making soup)
• 努力どりょく (doryoku): effort
• 冗談じょうだん (jōdan): joke

Grammar 1 / 4: はともかく

Noun + は ともかく (として) = never mind ～, leaving ～ aside: put A to one side, and the point is in the second half. 結果けっかは ともかく、やって みよう = Forget the result, let's just try.

• Form: noun + は ともかく (として): Add は ともかく after a noun. A more formal way is は ともかく として. It can also follow "～か どうか": 間まに合あうか どうかは ともかく (whether we'll make it in time or not, never mind).
• Meaning: never mind A: You put A on hold for now and don't discuss it. A isn't unimportant; it's just "not for now".
• The second half is the point: The second half is often the speaker's decision or opinion: やって みよう・おいしい・便利べんりだ. So the second half can't be decided by A again (you can't say "never mind the weather" and then "I'm not going because it's raining").
• Similar: は 別べつとして: 冗談じょうだんは 別べつとして (joking aside), 値段ねだんは 別べつとして (price is a separate matter). The meaning is close to は ともかく.

• 結果けっかは ともかく、最後さいごまで やって みよう。 — Never mind the result. Let's keep going to the end.
• 見みた目めは ともかく、味あじは 最高さいこうです。 — Looks aside, the taste is first-class.
• 値段ねだんは ともかく として、この 店みせは 駅えきから 近ちかくて 便利べんりだ。 — Price aside, this shop is handy because it's near the station.
• 冗談じょうだんは 別べつとして、本当ほんとうに 三千さんぜん人にん 集あつめられるかな。 — Joking aside, can we really get three thousand people?
• 間まに合あうか どうかは ともかく、今いまから 出発しゅっぱつしよう。 — Whether we'll make it in time or not, let's leave right now.

Grammar 2 / 4: はもとより

Aは もとより、Bも～ = not to mention A, even B ～: A is taken for granted, and B is the "even this" part. More formal than は もちろん.

• Form: Aは もとより、Bも: Noun + は もとより. In the second half, B usually takes も (で→でも, に→にも).
• Meaning: not to mention A, even B: First say an A that everyone thinks is "of course", then say "even B is the same". This stresses how wide the range is.
• Put the "obvious" one in A: Affirmative: A is the one that most obviously does it (住民じゅうみんは もとより、観光客かんこうきゃくも). Negative: A is the harder one: 漢字かんじは もとより、ひらがなも 読よめない (of course they can't read kanji, and they can't even read hiragana).
• もとより and もちろん: The meaning is almost the same. は もとより is more formal and is used in introductions, notices and writing. With friends it isn't wrong, but it sounds stiff, so は もちろん sounds more natural.

• 味あじは もとより、量りょうも 大切たいせつです。 — Taste goes without saying, and portions matter too.
• 住民じゅうみんは もとより、観光客かんこうきゃくも 署名しょめいして くれた。 — Residents, of course, and even tourists helped by signing the petition.
• 谷中やなかは 日本にほんは もとより、外国がいこくでも 人気にんきが ある。 — Yanaka is popular in Japan, of course, and abroad too.
• この ツアーは 子こどもは もとより、大人おとなも 楽たのしめます。 — This tour is fun for children, of course, and even adults can enjoy it.
• 漢字かんじは もとより、ひらがなも 読よめない。 — Of course he can't read kanji, and he can't even read hiragana.

Grammar 3 / 4: にかけては

Noun + に かけては = when it comes to ～, (someone) is the best, second to none. Put a skill or strong point before it, and praise always follows: ラーメンに かけては 日本一にほんいちだ.

• Form: noun + に かけては: Add に かけては directly after the noun. The person can come first (店長てんちょうは ラーメンに かけては～) or after (漢字かんじに かけては、リンは～).
• Meaning: when it comes to ～ (best at it): Out of many things, you pick out "this field" and say someone is very good at it, second to none. Before it goes a skill: cooking, kanji, making gyoza, making broth (ぎょうざ作づくり・スープ作づくり).
• Praise always follows: Common endings: 日本一にほんいちだ・一番いちばんだ・だれにも 負まけない・自信じしんが ある. For weak points or things you're bad at, you can't use に かけては.
• Different from に ついて: に ついて = about ～ (a topic): ラーメンに ついて 話はなす. に かけては praises "strong in this field", and can't be used for a topic.

• 店長てんちょうは ラーメンに かけては 日本一にほんいちだ。 — When it comes to ramen, the shop owner is number one in Japan.
• 漢字かんじに かけては、リンは だれにも 負まけない。 — When it comes to kanji, nobody beats Rin.
• ぎょうざ作づくりに かけては、熊太くまたが 一番いちばんです。 — When it comes to making gyoza, Kumata is number one.
• 料理りょうりに かけては、この 町まちの だれにも 負まけません。 — When it comes to cooking, I don't lose to anyone in this town.
• スープ作づくりに かけては、店長てんちょうは 自信じしんが ある。 — When it comes to making broth, the shop owner is very confident.

Grammar 4 / 4: 次第しだいで

Noun + 次第しだいで／次第しだいだ = it all depends on ～: we don't yet know how A will turn out, and the result or decision that follows goes with it. 署名しょめいの 数かず次第しだいだ = It all depends on the signature count.

• Form: noun + 次第しだいで／次第しだいだ: In the middle of a sentence use 次第しだいで (followed by 変かわる・決きまる and so on). At the end use 次第しだいだ／次第しだいです. The noun connects directly: 天気てんき次第しだい (not 天気てんきの 次第しだい).
• Meaning: it all depends on ～: We don't know yet how A will turn out. Whatever A turns out to be, the result or decision goes the same way. Common nouns: 署名しょめいの 数かず (how many we get), 天気てんき (what it'll be), 努力どりょく (how much effort), あなた (what you decide).
• Compare with に よって (differs by ～): The noun before 次第しだい is a condition whose outcome we don't know yet (how the weather will be, how many signatures we get, how much effort). The result follows it, and often a decision or action comes after: 天気てんき次第しだいで 予定よていが 変かわる. に よって only means "it differs by type" (each country, each person): 国くにに よって 言葉ことばが 違ちがう.
• Reminder: 次第しだい is followed by で or だ: Noun + 次第しだい takes で in the middle of a sentence (天気てんき次第しだいで 変かわる) and だ／です at the end (天気てんき次第しだいです). It isn't followed by に, and no の goes before it.

• 計画けいかくは 署名しょめいの 数かず次第しだいで 変かわるかも しれない。 — The plan may change depending on the number of signatures.
• 天気てんき次第しだいで、明日あしたの ツアーは 中止ちゅうしに なります。 — Tomorrow's tour may be cancelled depending on the weather.
• 結果けっかは 努力どりょく次第しだいだ。 — The result depends entirely on effort.
• 行いくか どうかは、天気てんき次第しだいです。 — Whether we go or not depends on the weather.
• 春はるまでに 間まに合あうか どうかは、みんな次第しだいだ。 — Whether we'll make it before spring is up to everyone.